tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post3961571807144222441..comments2024-02-06T10:31:24.491-07:00Comments on Watching the World Wake Up: Accents, Sparrows and Sonic Gay-darWatcherhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02248341788957416471noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-82924479745849304992010-02-15T13:23:46.322-07:002010-02-15T13:23:46.322-07:00I'm way late to this post, but have to point o...I'm way late to this post, but have to point out that not only is there a hard-to-define Utah accent, but there's a specifically Mormon dialect as well. When I worked at a call center I could always tell when I was talking to a Mormon because they reminded me of my Uncle Bob. Not a very useful definition I know, but it was quite effective.ElGuapohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14479861725413367721noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-76137437657807771542010-01-28T07:51:49.520-07:002010-01-28T07:51:49.520-07:00Fascinating as usual!
I grew up in Indiana, and...Fascinating as usual! <br /><br />I grew up in Indiana, and now live (19 years) just 30 miles north of New Orleans. I've been told I have a flat to no accent as well, but have picked up on some of the local flavor, "Hey, Where y'at?" Many of the middle class New Orleans residents have a decidedly non-Southern accent, almost like Brooklynese (if that's a word), think Bugs Bunny..."I shoulda taken that left toin at Albacoykee".<br /><br />Lastly, I also note in Karl's pic what appears to also be a container of Clorox wipes...double duty with the Lysol!DaveLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-15998255860845276392010-01-26T11:47:16.791-07:002010-01-26T11:47:16.791-07:00P65- Just emailed you #. You already have a Watche...P65- Just emailed you #. You already have a WatcherSticker, but if you succeed in your mission I will reward you with an awesome graphic.Watcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02248341788957416471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-74589385920098509032010-01-26T10:41:09.215-07:002010-01-26T10:41:09.215-07:00Shelley - I'm only teasing really, but there a...Shelley - I'm only teasing really, but there are so many differences in English accents, to an english person there is no such thing as an "English accent". And Watcher has stated previously he's been to the UK plenty of times, maybe he knows the difference? <br /><br />But of course even within regions there are differences. I met a Yorkshireman once who told me he could tell if someone came from Halifax or Huddersfield as soon as they opened their mouth (two towns 10 miles apart). <br /><br />Personally as a Brit I could possibly tell apart a Boston accent, New York, Southern, maaaybe Chicago/midwest but then it gets a bit difficult. <br /><br />Watcher - no probs, just email me the number... I promise to be discreet!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18311987239250712221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-78576152292367972022010-01-26T00:30:41.607-07:002010-01-26T00:30:41.607-07:00Heavens to Mergatroyd! With all respect to scienti...Heavens to Mergatroyd! With all respect to scientific precision, unless Watcher had lived in England for many years, why WOULD he know what kind of accent his boss has? I'm tempted to leave my phone number for P65 and see if he knows what kind of American accent I have. Unless he's lived all over the States, he won't have a clue. <br /><br />~ShelleyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-84229889004293871932010-01-25T17:25:49.791-07:002010-01-25T17:25:49.791-07:00Shelley- Ouch. Had not thought of “Dukes” for at l...Shelley- Ouch. Had not thought of “Dukes” for at least 20 years until your comment… Now I keep seeing the General Lee every time I close my eyes… let it end, let it end…<br /><br />P65- You know, I’m have tempted to have you call my boss (as a “wrong number” type call, or maybe just his voicemail greeting), and then tell me what kind of Bristol-Cornish-Estuary-Whoziwhatsitz accent he has. You could be the Official WTWWU English Accent Subject Matter Expert, and I would do a graphic of you, just like I did for Coworker Karl.<br /><br />“Geordie, Scouser, Brum, Bristolian, Cornish, Estuary, Cockney…” Huh. Those are accents? I thought those were all different kinds of dogs. Or puddings.Watcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02248341788957416471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-8518437551692629742010-01-25T15:27:16.564-07:002010-01-25T15:27:16.564-07:00Well I'm very late to this post but I have to ...Well I'm very late to this post but I have to leave a comment even though no-one will read it. <br /><br />So your new boss has an "English" accent?? What does that mean? It doesn't mean anything!! Is it Geordie, Scouser, Brum, Bristolian, Cornish, Estuary, Cockney, RP, Cumbrian, Yorkshire, or Mancunian (to name some of the more common examples)? As a scientist, Watcher, I am disappointed in your lack of precision.<br /><br />Yours P65 (Estuary & proud)Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18311987239250712221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-35449394572526542852010-01-22T14:22:34.517-07:002010-01-22T14:22:34.517-07:00Great post.
Why is there a bias against southern ...Great post.<br /><br />Why is there a bias against southern accents? Three words: "Dukes of Hazzard." Those guys may have been cute, but they were dumb as a box of hair. <br /><br />Seriously, I think TV and movies have shaped a lot of our prejudices in this area. Have you ever noticed the accents in older movies about the ancient world? Elite Romans, for instance, usually have proper English accents while the rabble have American accents.<br /><br />~ShelleyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-26615126250656657402010-01-22T10:44:43.301-07:002010-01-22T10:44:43.301-07:00Here may be another Utah accent item:
My sister-i...Here may be another Utah accent item:<br /><br />My sister-in-law is from California. When she came to Utah it drove her nuts how many Utahns (mis)pronounce mountain as moun-un. The t is either completely silent or very soft. Same with fountain and similar words.KanyonKrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01954169751206336705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-34259230744979545892010-01-22T09:32:34.377-07:002010-01-22T09:32:34.377-07:00Fun post! One of my favorite accents is a from a ...Fun post! One of my favorite accents is a from a friend of my who is gay and Cajun, now that's a hoot.<br /><br />My wife tells me that I turn on a Texas accent when I'm on the phone with my grandmother, it's like an unconscious thing to help her understand me better? I speak louder and with a drawl.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02009065746928648051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-43326264932631486972010-01-21T23:08:03.530-07:002010-01-21T23:08:03.530-07:00ElZo- I don’t doubt you. I never lived in the Sout...ElZo- I don’t doubt you. I never lived in the South, so I learned all my Southern accents from the Andy Griffith Show and Gone With The Wind. That’s an exaggeration, but I’ve never had enough continued exposure to the South to become attuned to the local regional accents as I did in the Maine-to-Baltimore corridor.<br /><br />Eric- embarrassed to say I never heard of the Irish Channel till your comment. Thanks.<br /><br />Christopher- So you got me thinking about context-normal. When I watch movies about ancient times, say in Rome or Ancient Greece (like “Gladiator” or the old “I, Claudius” series on Masterpiece Theatre) it seems more “normal” to me if the actors speak in an English accent. “Troy” is an example: characters who spoke with English accents- Peter O’Toole, Orlando Bloom, Eric Bana (yes I know he’s an Aussie, but sounds “English-y” to us) sounded, well, <i>right</i>, while Brad Pitt just sounded silly. Odd.<br /><br />mj- I'd guess I've been to California a couple hundred times, but probably 98% of those times in SoCal, the Bay Area or Tahoe, which are all kind of like Atlanta in GA- full of transplants. So it’s hard for me to call a CA accent. (Phil O.- you lived near Fresno for 2 years- what do you think? And I love Cary Grant’s accent- let’s all talk like him at our next family holiday.)<br /><br />And yes, the good-boss/money analogy is all mine. Really I meant it- best insight I ever had. Cannot believe it took me so long to figure it out. Between that and sonic gay-dar, this post was total money. You might as well stop reading now; I will never top it.<br /><br />SBJ- When in Spain (I’ve been 3 times) I’m frequently mistaken for a Spaniard… until I speak. :^)Watcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02248341788957416471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-17207472248629450522010-01-21T22:53:17.845-07:002010-01-21T22:53:17.845-07:00Phil, I too took linguistics hoping to learn somet...Phil, I too took linguistics hoping to learn something. It was an easy A--disappointingly easy. I seriously wanted my tuition back.<br /><br />Best compliment I ever had on my Spanish was when traveling in Mexico and after speaking being mistaken for a Mexican. I couldn't pull it off now.Ski Bike Junkiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12295969126174565599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-57225852577314072692010-01-21T16:54:17.516-07:002010-01-21T16:54:17.516-07:00Great post. I gotta ask, did you make that boss qu...Great post. I gotta ask, did you make that boss quote up? I ended up sharing it with my coworkers and they all loved it. I even peaked into my director's office and told him he was money. <br /><br />What kind of accent do us native Californian's* have? I always thought we had the standard nondescript speaking habits. Well OK, we do speak like movie and TV stars.<br /><br />*By that I mean run of the mill middle class types. <br /><br />Dingbat- I was at an open house at the USGS and the singer at the opening ceremonies did the first two verses and people were all staring at each other going WTF?<br /><br />mjMike J in Fremontnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-88805539490611356732010-01-21T16:03:55.243-07:002010-01-21T16:03:55.243-07:00Many American accents have a tendency to sound qui...Many American accents have a tendency to sound quite nasal to non-Americans. I think it's the overemphasised consonants (particularly the r you mention).<br /><br />One of the wierdest things about accents for Antipodeans (I've discussed this with colleagues who have noticed the same thing I have, so it's not just me) is that they are context-normal. As you said, I won't notice someone speaking in an Antipodean accent* but if someone's talking in an American accent I'll hear it a mile off. However, when I'm watching an American program on television, the situation is suddenly reversed. Because I'm used to hearing an American accent on television (American shows probably make up the greater part of our programming), the American accent becomes the normal one that doesn't get noticed, while anyone with an Antipodean accent is immediately obvious.<br /><br />*My father was born and raised in New Zealand, my mother in Australia. As a result, I personally don't hear the difference between an Australian and New Zealand accent. There are distinct differences between the two - probably about as big as the difference between a southern and northern American accent. But because I grew up hearing both on a daily basis, they both come under my 'normal accent' mental category.<br /><br />The most fascinating English variant that I've encountered, though, <i>has</i> to be Indian English. Many Indians speak a combination of English and Hindi that is bewildering to someone who only speaks English. They'll even switch between the two languages mid-sentence.Christopher Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11075565866351612441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-44178448368975528882010-01-21T12:55:26.411-07:002010-01-21T12:55:26.411-07:00Great post!
Dee-cide (not to be confused with dei...Great post! <br />Dee-cide (not to be confused with deicide) is a neat word that straddles the long-vowel/short-vowel distinction. The (descriptive) rule is that unaccented short vowels in English go to schwa (which is a vowel, or at least a written marker, in its own right, in Hebrew). <br /><br />I love to hear singers deal with this conundrum when doing the national anthem: the i in "perilous" ("through the perilous fight") wants to go to schwa, but musically that sounds all swung and undignified. It's fun to see who has the guts to belt out an unaccented short-i quarter-note with confidence. <br /><br />And who knew that <a href="http://www.usa-flag-site.org/song-lyrics/star-spangled-banner.shtml" rel="nofollow">The Star-Spangled Banner</a> has four verses? Wouldn't it be hilarious to see a singer and organist go through all four before a hockey game?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01823267394299389825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-75902584982662082672010-01-21T12:27:40.833-07:002010-01-21T12:27:40.833-07:00I grew up in the south, and had / have a modest bu...I grew up in the south, and had / have a modest but unmistakable Southern accent. I wasn't even really conscious I had the accent until I moved to Boston after getting out of college. One of the more bizarre experiences I've had was becoming acutely aware of my own accent in the weeks after I first moved here. Try to imagine hearing the words coming out of your mouth as something other than 'Regular' speech.<br /><br />In the ~10 years that I've been here, my accent has faded, but I can still turn it back up. I'm pretty sure I do so subconsciously when I go visit family back home. And I sometimes do it semi-consciously in work conversations when I want to pull folks who've started building castles in the air back down to earth.<br /><br />Your comment about Southern accent being non-rhotic didn't sound right to me; I'm pretty sure I've always pronounced the first 'r' in 'farther', and can't remember hearing any of the Southern-accented speakers I grew up around pronouncing it 'father'. Wikipedia agrees, saying that non-rhoticity is an attribute of older Southern accents, and that it's rapidly disappearing.ElZohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16207148171071531956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-57677988447539355352010-01-21T11:33:02.577-07:002010-01-21T11:33:02.577-07:00"Sonic Gay-dar" - I was totally hooked. ..."Sonic Gay-dar" - I was totally hooked. I had no choice but to read this post.<br /><br />Wow, what a smorgasbord!<br /><br />I wouldn't have tried to address the gay accent topic. I just know I would have botched it and come off as a nutjob homophobe. But you handled it directly yet respectfully (well, in my opinion at least).<br /><br />I had no idea birds had accents. Fascinating.<br /><br />In honor of this landmark post, perhaps I'll speak in a Thurston Howell accent all day. It'll be Mahhvelous dahling.KanyonKrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01954169751206336705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-38006965756945374132010-01-21T10:20:57.731-07:002010-01-21T10:20:57.731-07:00I've heard of the South/British connection too...I've heard of the South/British connection too. <br /><br />I've found myself picking up a semi-Texas drawl (not the exciting Authentic Texas drawl, but the Dumb Hick drawl) in the last few years, despite living here all my life. I wonder if it's because I've been working in really boonies parts of the country lately and all the hick is sticking to me like a magnet? There's a certain Dumb Hick Texas treament of "oi" sounds that drives me nuts: e.g. "soil" and "boil" become "sohl" and "bohl". It threw me off the first time I heard an agriculturalist talking about... souls?Marissa Buschowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14902867977131616596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-64531942288880894432010-01-21T08:13:56.488-07:002010-01-21T08:13:56.488-07:00I hate to admit it, but I agree with the "Hic...I hate to admit it, but I agree with the "Hick" part of the southern accent, but I refine it further. It only applies to southern men, I love the accent on women.<br /><br />Also I have found that Staten Island NY accent is very similar to Boston. Living close to NY for my entire life I have become familiar with the multitude of accents found within the city.Mr Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13615461466526817032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-7455241935766096132010-01-21T08:05:55.972-07:002010-01-21T08:05:55.972-07:00One of your best posts. Many things on which to co...One of your best posts. Many things on which to comment...<br /><br />First, one of the most interesting (and difficult) classes I ever took in college was Linguistics. A totally fascinating (social?) science. Historical linguistics - figuring out where languages came from - was equally fascinating. It was the hardest, most enjoyable "B" I earned in college.<br /><br />Second, my understanding is that the "Kennedy" accent is essentially an attempt to imitate the Brahmin accents of upper-class Boston in the early 20th century (like the Lodges, elector nemeses of the Fitzgeralds and Kennedys). That's why no-one else talks that way.<br /><br />re: Israel. "Making aliyah" is still the term used to encourage non-Israeli, English-speaking Jewish kids to visit Israel at least once.<br /><br />I, too, spend a lot of time thinking about accents, especially as I travel in Canada. The French of Quebec is quite different from that of France (not surprisingly, since they've been divergent for 300+ years, with no new waves of French immigration), and there's far more than just "eh?" to help you quickly identify Anglophones from Ontario, Alberta, BC, etc. But the really interesting thing about the US-UK language divergence is that it happened in "British North America" (Canada) too, even though the links between the two countries were so much stronger for much longer. <br /><br />I wonder, long-term, if English accents between the US and Canada will converge or diverge. The dominance of US media culture argues for convergence, but the incredibly high immigrant population of Canada (almost 20%, as compared to about 13% in the US) and variety of English accents they bring makes me wonder if they will continue on their own linguistic path.<br /><br />Finally, you didn't touch on my favorite weird famous accent of all time: Cary Grant. He was born in the UK, but I've never heard another Englishman who talks like that.Phil O.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14499273759083108847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-50998337352097760112010-01-21T07:58:08.600-07:002010-01-21T07:58:08.600-07:00I'll have to have some sort of gin slushy toni...I'll have to have some sort of gin slushy tonight in your honor Watcher.<br /><br />On the British/Boston/Southern accent note however I have a tagent... ( am I allowed tangents in comments?)<br /><br />A riding buddy happens to be an English prof- and in a ride to or from a race- he was able to help me connect some linguistic dots. I was raised in the South for several years- then moved to the Midwest where I promptly discarded my nascent Southern accent. I can slip in and out of it as needed here- but largely people notice that I am 'not from around these parts' (seriously, they say that.)<br />Anyway I've always thought I heard some similar pronunciations when hearing British English speakers and Southern Speakers. I mainly notice this in certainly regional sub dialects- notably the South Carolina Costal accent and the South Central Alabama Accent (think Montgomery blue bloods.) Apparently this speech pattern has been traced by linguists to some extent by some specialized vocabulary and some other linguistic magic. The accent is allegedly reportedly the result of some of the British types being driven into the Carolinas post revolution and then the further consolidation of this accent/dialect among land/slaveholders on Plantations. It has still apparent with the remnant blue bloods and political figures in the monied Old South.<br /><br />If you really want to get in to some mind bending accents and linguistics lets chat about the Irish Channel in New Orleans.Eric Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10226373330932209950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-14995628967587736482010-01-21T07:44:36.514-07:002010-01-21T07:44:36.514-07:00More hidden Watcher-talents revealed! Is there no ...More hidden Watcher-talents revealed! Is there no end? <br /><br />Yes, truly chock-full! Your blog should qualify for educational discounts. Have you tried claiming it on your income tax?Sallyhttp://foothillsfancies.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.com