tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post731287211979176595..comments2024-02-06T10:31:24.491-07:00Comments on Watching the World Wake Up: All About Mars, and the Tumbling Potato in the SkyWatcherhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02248341788957416471noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-25663423304677952092010-03-25T09:15:13.770-06:002010-03-25T09:15:13.770-06:00Watcher: I think we're more or less on the sam...Watcher: I think we're more or less on the same page. I spoke of the enormity of space in three dimensions and that given that enormity, I can't imagine we're unique. What I didn't discuss was the fourth dimension: time. So while I think intelligent life is bound to happen somewhere else, the likelihood of it happening <i>right now</i> isn't so high. Moreover, even if it did happen concurrently, and we had some way of contacting each other (broadcasting radio waves into space), because radio waves only travel so fast and the universe is so large, by the time someone else got a message from us or we from them, the response lag would render the contact virtually meaningless. Still fun to think about, though.Ski Bike Junkiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12295969126174565599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-14873767353631045822010-03-24T19:56:30.005-06:002010-03-24T19:56:30.005-06:00Enel-
If you are serious about the guest blog thi...Enel-<br /><br /><i>If you are serious about the guest blog thingy, I would be honored.</i><br /><br />Know what? I wasn't serious when I wrote it, but now I am. Emailing you separately, and for any other interested readers, keep an eye out for a guest-poster call later this week (probably Friday).Watcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02248341788957416471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-76574045671387266592010-03-24T19:54:04.606-06:002010-03-24T19:54:04.606-06:00Oh boy- good comments on this one! Yes, of course ...Oh boy- good comments on this one! Yes, of course we’ll never know one way or the other till the <a href="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_6LWjP0sZ22w/StO9Tm2R5GI/AAAAAAAAGVI/mDoGRDmqq-A/s1600-h/Dubhe%20Companion%20Sky%5B4%5D.jpg" rel="nofollow">Dubheans</a> show up, but since we’re on the topic, I’ll share my “gut” and the reasons for it.<br /><br />My gut is that life is probably pretty common, but that intelligent life- at least life that we would recognize as intelligent- is probably pretty darn rare. My gut stems from the fact that it appears that life occurred pretty early in the history of the planet, suggesting that given the right conditions, it’s likely- or even perhaps <i>bound</i>- to happen. Furthermore, similar organisms, organs, abilities and techniques- everything from eyes to flight to C4 photosynthesis- have occurred multiple times, showing that evolutionary processes often produce similar results given similar environments.<br /><br />But intelligent life- the kind that builds cities and aircraft carriers and shopping malls and reality TV shows (wait- did I say “intelligent”?-) has only come about here once (so far) and only after the better part of a billion years of multicellular life, and then in the relative blip of an eye, <i>seeming</i> at least like perhaps more of an aberration/unusual event than a given, predictable outcome given the conditions.<br /><br />Bottom line: given the scale of the universe, I’m almost certain that intelligent life has, does and/or will occur elsewhere, but- again, given the scale of the universe, and probable separation in space and time- it’s likely that we and they would/will never, ever meet up or even encounter a hint of one another.<br /><br />Again only 1 planet, so not a very robust sample, but lack of little green visitors or alien I Love Lucy broadcasts don’t suggest a busy neighborhood either.Watcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02248341788957416471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-64877761554013785712010-03-24T16:27:19.624-06:002010-03-24T16:27:19.624-06:00Enel: and yet, here we are. And there are a lot mo...Enel: and yet, here we are. And there are a lot more than ten to the hundredth power planets out there. Is intelligent life rare? Yes. Unique? Probably not. <br /><br />Even if you believe in a supreme being as origin, that being is obviously intelligent and resides somewhere. Where? And did he just create life on this planet and no other? If so, why?<br /><br />I agree that these questions are at present unanswerable. I just think that regardless of odds and regardless of origin persuasion, given the enormity of the universe, the likelihood that our rock is the only one with intelligent life is less than the alternative. 500 years ago, Europeans didn't know that our continent existed and thought the sun rotated around the earth. Though our cosmological perspective is expanding, it still tends to be provincial.Ski Bike Junkiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12295969126174565599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-24972075253671876262010-03-24T15:02:19.046-06:002010-03-24T15:02:19.046-06:00Watcher:
If you are serious about the guest blog ...Watcher:<br /><br />If you are serious about the guest blog thingy, I would be honored. you would have to do the awesome graphics though cuz that is way beyond my ability.Enelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00967981896718833776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-16937895175584870032010-03-24T15:00:17.412-06:002010-03-24T15:00:17.412-06:00SBJ: The odds are much, much more than a trillion...SBJ: The odds are much, much more than a trillion (10exp12) to one. Probably more in line with the 10 to the 100th power. A lot of things need to come together just to have a habitable planet, not to mention the complexity of the processes that go into even the simplest life forms. Mars isn't even close to supporting life.<br /><br />The fact is, the possibility of life elsewhere in the universe is probably unanswereable. Not that we shouldn't try. There is so much we don't know about the universe that what you believe about this issue will come simply from your biases in regards to origins in general.<br /><br />If you believe life is a random, undirected process, you will usually also believe that earth and the processes that brought life from it are common and therefore must be common elsewhere in the universe.<br /><br />If you believe life is a directed process with eternal meaning, you will likely believe in the unique earth perspective.<br /><br />I don't think either perspectives, honestly, are prove-able (sorta like God) due to the limitations in our observations, and our knowledge.Enelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00967981896718833776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-90226635513520037952010-03-24T12:47:12.396-06:002010-03-24T12:47:12.396-06:00I think intelligent life is more than plausible. E...I think intelligent life is more than plausible. Even if the odds are a trillion to one, it has to have happened given all the trillions of planets we don't even know about. If a planet is capable of supporting life--which seems reasonable given that Mars is close to being able to do so, and it's just one planet over from us--and Darwinian principles are applicable there just as they are here, I think it's inevitable that somewhere out there intelligence has been positively correlated with survival and some species is able to communicate, reason, and is self-aware. Doesn't mean they're building supercolliders or rocket ships, but neither were we 100 years ago.Ski Bike Junkiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12295969126174565599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-73642286855479570652010-03-23T21:56:00.670-06:002010-03-23T21:56:00.670-06:00Enel- thanks for piping up and the clear (er than ...Enel- thanks for piping up and the clear (er than mine) explanation. How about you do a guest post sometime?<br /><br />KristenT- Your description of Mars (“…the only two things doing anything are robots…”) sounds like a couple of the companies I’ve worked for.<br /><br />SBJ- I agree, the numbers and scale would seem to be on the side of life occurring more than once. But <i>intelligent</i> life, now there’s a whole other question…Watcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02248341788957416471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-216042456426503632010-03-23T15:59:37.327-06:002010-03-23T15:59:37.327-06:00I mentioned the other day my enjoyment of natural ...I mentioned the other day my enjoyment of natural beauty on earth while recognizing that relatively speaking, it could be rather dull compared to natural beauty on other planets. What you've said about mountains and canyons on Mars seems to confirm that. I'd like to go there. If only...<br /><br />Also, the fact that one rock over in our solar system there is or has been liquid water convinces me further that with all the billions and trillions of stars and planets out there, ours cannot be the only one with intelligent life. Go SETI!Ski Bike Junkiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12295969126174565599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-51342929141181086782010-03-23T15:10:58.823-06:002010-03-23T15:10:58.823-06:00Enel - I see your point and believe you are correc...Enel - I see your point and believe you are correct. My bad for the false alarm. And good job explaining it so well.KanyonKrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01954169751206336705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-15183161654155143582010-03-23T14:23:10.406-06:002010-03-23T14:23:10.406-06:00Speaking of sci-fi, I have (of course) always enjo...Speaking of sci-fi, I have (of course) always enjoyed CS Lewis' take on it with "Out of the Silent Planet" (Mars) and "Perelandra" (Venus). They are complete fantasy, but interesting (and way before their time) in their take on the conflict between scientific and religious belief systems.Enelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00967981896718833776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-46761324327162279492010-03-23T14:04:02.329-06:002010-03-23T14:04:02.329-06:00Very cool post-- can't wait to read what you&#...Very cool post-- can't wait to read what you've got on Venus!<br /><br />Speaking of Sci-fi and planets... try SM Stirling's Lords of Creation series. 2 books. The first one is about Venus and the second one is about Mars. Very interesting stuff.<br /><br />Of course, it's not like there isn't anything going on around the whole planet Mars-- you forgot about our two rovers, roving around and poking, prodding, scratching in the dirt... wait, that sounds so depressing! A whole planet and the only two things doing anything are robots!KristenThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01187723351100391708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-76473094101271083332010-03-23T11:52:35.959-06:002010-03-23T11:52:35.959-06:00See here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-sq...See here:<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_lawEnelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00967981896718833776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-61933161043944025972010-03-23T11:48:34.281-06:002010-03-23T11:48:34.281-06:00I was surprised that Mars was so small. I had alw...I was surprised that Mars was so small. I had always thought it much closer to the size of Earth.<br /><br />Kris: The force of gravity will vary with distance, so more dense planets have their surface closer to their center of mass, and therefore more gravitational force at the surface. Two bodies with equal mass have the same overall gravity, the force experienced by the observer varies with how far away they are from the center of mass.<br /><br />I may be wrong here, but I think that is how it works.Enelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00967981896718833776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-14271145564204918562010-03-23T11:32:16.124-06:002010-03-23T11:32:16.124-06:00Excellent post, but then I'm biased, as an ast...Excellent post, but then I'm biased, as an astro-fan. I like how you add the relations - comparing to sizes of balls, etc. Thanks to the post I learned several cool things about Mars - thanks.<br /><br />I have a minor correction:<br />"Surface gravity is dependent on both mass and density, which is why Mercury, which is less massive but denser, has a higher surface gravity than Mars."<br /><br />I believe surface gravity is dependent solely on mass, which is determined by density and volume. So in your statement above it is more accurate to substitute "volume" or "size" where you say "mass".KanyonKrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01954169751206336705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-49758258999182906512010-03-23T09:41:38.148-06:002010-03-23T09:41:38.148-06:00This was a really interesting post. It took me bac...This was a really interesting post. It took me back to my childhood when my father would get out the telescope and my sister and I were enchanted by all the possibilities. We spent summers in the country and slept outside often. On our backs in the sleeping bags pondering the sky. Good memories....Michelleramblingwoodshttp://ramblingwoods.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-31543056343331877152010-03-22T22:57:27.173-06:002010-03-22T22:57:27.173-06:00"How do you like your women? Blonde? Brunette..."How do you like your women? Blonde? Brunette? Redhead?"<br /><br />Ahnold:"Brunette."<br /><br />"Slim. Athletic. Voluptuous."<br /><br />Ahnold:"Athletic."<br /><br />"Demure. Aggressive. Sleazy. Be honest."<br /><br />Ahnold:"Sleazy.....Demure."<br /><br />---------<br /><br />"you wouldn't hurt me,<br />would you, sweetheart? Sweetheart, be reasonable.<br />After all, we're married."<br /><br />Ahnold: "Consider that a divorce."Enelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00967981896718833776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-60813804658152095372010-03-22T21:18:31.128-06:002010-03-22T21:18:31.128-06:00Spencer- I almost did a Mars sci-fi tangent, as th...Spencer- I almost did a Mars sci-fi tangent, as there were so many great stories. My 2 favorite vignettes from Martian Chronicles BTW were the third expedition (crew lands, finds nice town with their passed-away loved ones, everyone is happy, and then in the middle of the night-yikes!) and, on a lighter note, the guy who thinks he’s the last human on Mars, connects with the last woman, drives all night to meet her, then after a miserable day together takes off into the desert, lives happily ever after (alone) and never answers the phone again.<br /><br />Venus, BTW, also had awesome sci-fi back in the 30’s, before its pressure-cooker/furnace nature was known. Back then it was thought to be tidally-locked to the sun, and several stories featured a thin, habitable, twilit, eternal sunset zone, bordered by an always-day scorching desert on one side, and an always-night frozen wasteland on the other. (Asimov also used this idea for one of the planets in the Foundation trilogy- he called it a “ribbon world.”)Watcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02248341788957416471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9199848742267562587.post-34389079467225339222010-03-22T09:50:12.902-06:002010-03-22T09:50:12.902-06:00Thanks for another great post.
I love Mars for i...Thanks for another great post. <br /><br />I love Mars for its place in the imagination of the 20th century--even in a primarily scientific treatment such as this I think that the 'science fiction' element of Mars deserves a mention. <br /><br />Where would Mars be without Ray Bradbury? (OK--it would be in exactly the same place--but where would Ray Bradbury be without Mars?)Spencernoreply@blogger.com